Need help! Cartridge ID.

[Yadkin stars]

I cant seem to get the pic to upload so I'll just tell you all what I was told about the cartridge and see if it sounds right.
I recieved this bullet from an old friend. this is what he told me about it, :

"its a rimfire copper jacket .45 whitworth sharpshooter round.
its been fired twice and is reloaded for the third time."

What I know for sure is this, It is copper, it is rimfire, it has two strikes on the casing so it has been fired twice. It is currently loaded and looks to have been that way for quite some time. and it does appear to be a .45 caliber.
it is 2 1/4" long from tip to tip. the casing is a full half inch wide, with the heal of the rim being 5/8" wide.

Anybody think they can help me??
I can email pic's if you need them.

[Jack]

Are the firing pin dents on the rim? If so, your cartridge is a misfire. I'd guess the shooter pulled the trigger, the rifle didn't fire, he may have reinserted the cartridge in the chamber again and tried to fire it again. Then, when it didn't fire, the cartridge was discarded. Probably got made with no priming compound, or none in the place where the firing pin hit.
I can tell you one thing: if it's a rimfire, it is NOT reloaded. Rimfire cartridges are not reloadable.
If the firing pin dents are in the center of the cartridge, what you have is an old inside primed cartridge. Same scenario. Early cartridges were made with a crimped in primer inserted into the case from the inside. Inside primed cases aren't reloadable, either.
Without pictures, or very precise measurements in a number of places, I can't identify the cartridge, sorry.

[PCGeorge]

Adding to what Jack said:
It is definitely NOT a Whitworth metallic cartridge -- because the Whitworth rifle did not use a metallic cartridge. The Whitworth cartridge was made of paper/cardboard, not metal.

Please email me the photos so I can try to help you correctly identify your cartridge.

Regards,
Pete

[Yadkin stars]

Maybe these will help.
It has a plus symbol with a circle around it on the bottom of the casing.

[PCGeorge]

Thank you for providing the photos. That shape of cartridge is called a "necked" form. (The cartridge's main body tapers down to a narrower "neck" which held the bullet.) That form did not come into existence until several years after the end of the American civil war.

Because the base-view photo is ruined by too much flash, I cannot examine the cartridge's base and any firing-pin marks. But your mention that "It has a plus symbol with a circle around it on the bottom of the casing" indicates Swiss manufacture, if I recall correctly.

In the other photos, the lead bullet resembles an Indian Wars era .45-caliber Springfield or Sharps bullet. (But, none of those .45 bullets' cartridges were "necked.") Though the bullet's "general form" is similar to a Whitworth minie, the nose's taper is different.

Again, sorry to have to tell you, the info on the paper/card you were given, claiming civil war usage by the Confederates, is definitely wrong. If the price you paid for this cartridge was based on that info, I suggest you request a full refund from the seller. This "necked" cartridge did not exist in 1861-65. Also, it is definitely not a Whitworth.

If you prefer to keep it rather than asking for a refund... you might have some luck finding a match-up for it by searching through the Indian Wars bullets for sale on Ebay -- or from Historical cartridge dealers on the Internet. You could also do a Google search for the phrase "Indian Wars bullets."

Regards,
Pete [P.C. George]

[Yadkin stars]

I found out what it is.
Thanks for you help.
It's a .41 Vetterli model of 1869-71. produced between 1871 and 1874
Swiss.
No money changed hands so we're all good...