ID Requested: Can Anyone ID This Nose Cap To The Carbine?

R

raw-war-digger1

Established Users
Hello All,
I finally got bored enough to go digging today. I found this Brass nose cap and was wondering if anyone out there could look at the scan and ID the type Rifle/Carbine it was once a part of? I have reason to believe that it was off a Carbine and will disclose my proof later. Found something else in the hole with the nose cap and only one other CW item and it was a .36 cal. round ball.

Thanks For The Help,
I Will Show Proof With Details Later, Roger
 
I'm Not Sure.....Yet?

Hello JimT and All,
I'm not for sure....yet what type Carbine the nose cap came off. I'm not an authority on weapons but my reference book shows an Enfield nose cap and makes notes to the two screw holes. The book also speaks of a brass trigger guard which I assume was standard on all Enfields. This nose cap has but one hole and was found in the same hole with this in the attachment. It is a .57, .577, .58 cal. and the barrel length is right at 25". I started cleaning it with Electrolysis yesterday evening and unplugged the charger before going to bed. It's in pretty bad shape but still retains some of the wood in light layers. The end of the muzzle was recovered from around 2' deep and the hammer, lock plate end was closer to 2 1/2'. I continued to dig looking for the butt plate without any luck. Either this model didn't have one, was lost or is still in the ground?

I'm thinking it could be a Richmond.....time and cleaning will tell.
Thanks For Looking, Roger

After cleaning it up somewhat it appears to be a Richmond Carbine :wink: . I will let the experts correct me if needed. It's in very poor condition! The trigger guard assembly, both rifle bands & swivel, front & rear sight were nothing more than big hunks of rust! I might be able to save some of the trigger guard assembly? Here is a scan just before putting it back into the Electrolysis bath.

Thanks Again, Roger
 

Attachments

  • Cleaned Carbine.jpg
    Cleaned Carbine.jpg
    28 KB · Views: 5,337
  • Carbine Found 4-5-04.jpg
    Carbine Found 4-5-04.jpg
    64.7 KB · Views: 5,333
Well that's definately a Richmond "humpback" lockplate! So it's some kind of Richmond carbine...very cool.

I just checked with a coworker who works at the Horse Soldier shop on weekends; he says that Richmond carbines did have a brass nose cap! So there you go! Great find.

I dug a Richmond musket in the Wilderness about 5 years ago in about the same condition. Like you, I never found the butt plate.

One reason many weapons are found without their butt plates is that during a battle, when a soldiers gun malfunctioned, he would "wrap it around" the nearest tree so the enemy couldn't get it and repair it afterwards. If it was the butt-end that was wacked against the tree, the stock would crack and the butt plate and end of the stock would fly off to who-knows-where. Dean and his friends found many muskets down at Chancellorsville without buttplates and the ends of the trigger guard all twisted up.
 
Expert Help Needed To Perserve This Piece!!!!!

Seems as if the Electrolysis isn't doing a very good job! I surely could use some expert advise or home recipe to help remove the encrusted rust from this piece! I want to remove all the harmful rusting elements and then coat with a rust block or spray it with clear sealant.

Any and All Help Will Be Appreciated, RAW
 
Started Coating This Piece!!!!!

Hello Guys,
I guess I'm impatient and have used every method known to myself to remove as much rust as possible! This evening I started coating the piece with a rust block and this is waht she looks like at present (see attachment). If I've hurried the process, it will show later! and I can go back and correct it!!

Thanks For All The Help, Roger
 

Attachments

  • Coated Carbine.JPG
    Coated Carbine.JPG
    33 KB · Views: 5,290
Very nice find.

Question though. Did you bake the moisture out before you treated it? I know a guy near me that started baking his cannon balls etc, then "waxing them." Term he uses.

Several of his older chemically treated balls had big flakes come off. Seems if there is moisture trapped by the inhibitor, it will continue to corrode and flake. I stopped putting anything on my iron. When I figure out how this guy does it, I'll copy him.
 
I know from a few folks that do electrolysis that baking the moisture out is real important. I've seen a few artillery shells that weren't cooked but
sealed with a poly coating decompose from inside.

CraigC
 
Heated It Several Times

Hello Everyone,
I got out the fish cooker and fired it up! Holding the lock plate, hammer over the flames and watched the rust pop off at times! I then dipped it in the remains of the Electrolysis solution and chipped away as much rust as possible! I did this several times until everything looked clean except for the small area just above and behind the Main Spring! I don't know how to remove all that down in the nooks without removing it all together. I cleaned inside the barrel and got out as much dirt, gravel as possible. I finally got the Lock Plate seperated from the barrel and continued to clean those hidden areas! Before applying the Rust Converter I put it all in the oven on 200 for about 20 minutes. This removes moisture and aids in the drying process of the converter. I coated the lock plate and the barrel end then reapplied the two together. After coating the trigger assembly I attached it back using JB Weld. Tonight I removed any excess JB Weld and applied another coat of Rust Converter!

Hopefully It Will Be OK,
What Should I Do With The Inside Of The Barrel?
Thanks, Roger
 
Richmond Carbine Update!

Hello Guys,
I took what was left of the Richmond Carbine and brass nose to Shiloh Relics yesterday. Rafeal Eledge (Road Show Appraiser and Expert) was flabbergasted! He kept saying "It a Richmond.....It's a Richmond Short Gun.....It's a Richmond! It's as rare as a Richmond Plate! Very Cool! It's a Richmond Carbine!" He ask was it found around here (meaning around Shiloh) and I disclosed of the digging area. He had a Richmond Rifle (Non-Dug long gun) on display. It had a brass Butt Plate attached. I asked if the Carbine had a Brass or Iron Butt Plate? He told me that it could have been either. I seem to think that this Carbine once had a Brass Butt Plate?
Just seems that a digger heard the Brass Butt Plate and dug it.....leaving the Carbine as it was at least 12" away! Just my thoughts.....Who really knows?

Never-the-Less, I'm the PROUD OWNER OF AN AUTHENTIC DUG RICHMOND CARBINE!!!!! I AM THE DIGGER AND KNOW WHERE IT WAS DUG!!!!!

Update: I went back to this location on Friday (April 16, 2004) and dug everything I heard (unlocked/NO Discrimination). The first signal was a flat piece of flat cast iron about 10" in dia. and about 2 foot deep. I continued to dig every deep signal and unearthed several pieces of the old brass Telegraph wire. I managed to find 2 dropped .69 rounds, 1 shot pistol bullet and the largest Rossette known to Mankind (maybe Post War?).

Thanks For Looking, Happy RAW
 
JUST CHECKED THE BULLETIN BOARD AND SAW THIS!!!!!!! THAT IS A RICHMOND.
I WOULD CHECK WITH EVERY DIGGER YOU KNOW TO FIND THAT BUTTPLATE OR KEEP LOOKING.THAT IS VERY NICE,GOOD FOR YOU.

ALSO POOR IN KENTUCKY,ROBERT
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top