Sunday Finds

[vegasharp]

Hi Gang,

Went out for a few hours today. Found a couple of dropped 3 ringers, what may be part of a pocket watch and what may be a boot heel plate.

The bottom bullet was found in a creek bank, about to fall into the creek. After I pinpointed it, all I had to do to expose it was move some leaves out of the way. I went back to the house and grabbed the camera for the shot.

So I went up the bank and kept searching. Found the next bullet and the heel plate in the same hole at the top of the bank. The erosion must have exposed the first bullet.

The relic books show that the heel plate could be a mule shoe, due to it's shape. But the size is small. It fits closely with the heel on my shoes. The length is 4.375 and the width is 3.25. Any help is appreciated to confirm what this could be.

THX

Rodney

 

[TnCobra]

Some pretty neat stuf there. The manshoe is really cool.

ThanX,

 

[DANNY SPENCER]

Hi Rodney
The shoe looks to me like am animal shoe because of the length of the ends. I dug a lot of heal taps / shoes off of Brushy Mountain and the common feature was they were all basically half round or crescent shaped. Also they were reality thin in comparison to an animal shoe.
The bullet kind of looks like a Georgia pattern, does it have a flat tipped or teat cavity?

 

[vegasharp]

Hey Guys,

Thanks for the notes. The shoe may be for animals. The shape is not correct for the heel plates but the darn thing is so small. Maybe a pony ?

Danny: the bullet has no teat, it has a conical cavity. However, the base is very thin. I included a shot for you to peruse. Let me know what you think.

THX !

Rodney

 

[Tennessee]

Wow thanks for the photos

Those pics area great thanks for sharing them. I need to do this more often. i guess I'm so wrapped up in the hunt and wanna swing my coil so much I hardly ever take the time to snap pics. I will from this point forward take pic

Thanks again for sharing.

Later will

Oh yeah that bullets looks odd

 

[DANNY SPENCER]

Hi Rodney
I think the bullet is a conical variant of the M&M583 or 392 with erosion to the grooves.
You said that you found it on a creek bank, creeks move over 140+ years; it may have been in the creek at one time?

Examples of horse and the smaller ox shoes can be seen on page 141 of Civil War Artifacts by Howard Crouch. Examples of human heal plates can be seen on page143.
Note the wooden heals were common on period infantry shoes making the heal plate a necessity often having rimed edges to fit snugly around the edge of the wooden heal.

Just some opinions?

 

[vegasharp]

Hey Guys,

Will: I stole the idea from KCSteve, who's always giving us plenty of cool, "as it's being dug" photos. Plus being near the house, I could easily grab a camera. Glad you like them !

Danny: Thanks for the note and photos from Crouch's book. That's why I was suspect that it was a heel plate. Just hoping .

Great help on the comparison photos. I'll get some measurements on the bullets and get back to you. That would be cool if it's either the 583 or the 392 because it would be my first one.

Yep, no telling where that creek bank was 140 years ago. This is the upper end of Mud Creek, which was discussed in the OR. It was flooded at the time of the fighting due to heavy, incessant, rain. Heck, the bullet could even have come down the creek in heavy water and lodged into the bank. Lot's of possibilities !

Thanks !

Rodney

 

[PCGeorge]

I'll speak up to add confirmation that the item is a muleshoe or pony's shoe. Note the following ID-Clues...
Its form matches that of a horse/mule shoe:
(1) Many holes for attachment-nails, whereas most heelplates have just a few holes.
(2) A horse/mule shoe's attachment holes are rectangular, whereas a heelplate's tend to be round (because unlike animal-shoes a heelplate was usually attached with small screws, not nails.
(3) A horse/mule shoe tends to resemble a capital-letter U ...meaning, its ends tend to be "extended" ...and parallel to each other. Compare that shape with heelplates' much more round/crescent shape ...as shown in the photos Danny posted.
(4) As Danny already pointed out, heelplates are always far thinner (1/8" thick, or less) than animal shoes (1/4" thick, or greater).

Regards,
Pete [PCGeorge]

 

[DANNY SPENCER]

Rodney
Butch Holcombe at Greybird Relics in Acworth also with American Digger magazine digs a lot of bullets from Mud Creek.
May be you ought to get up with him and may be move up or downstream a little?
Years ago there were a lot of relics found off the side of the power line easement that crosses Kennesaw Due West road.
Probably still there, I don’t think they move those giant towers too often!

 

[kcsteve]

Nice bullets Rodney! That one pic reminded me of the days when I would go out after the field just plowed and exposed about 20 three ringers just lying on top of the ground just like yours...hmmm...those were the days! :-(

 

[vegasharp]

Hi Guys,

Pete: thanks for the detail on the shoes. It is amazing that I have yet to find any true heel plates on the property. Maybe you and Danny got them all !

Danny: I measured the creek bullet and it appears too short to be a Georgia Troop. The length is 0.995 or so. Also, after closer examination it's pretty beat up. Maybe tumbling down the creek altered the cavity and the base, making it look like a different bullet ?

Danny: Thanks for the tip. I've not met Butch but will try to look him up. Yep, those power lines are still there. They just put a small subdivision next to them, at the point where they cross Kennesaw Due West.

Steve: Thanks for the note. Yep, when I saw that bullet embedded in the bank, I did think of you and those plowed fields.

I'll head back to the creek to see what I can find. BUT, it's painful hunting due to the cans, tabs, bottle caps, etc, floating down from the subdivisions to the North.

Thanks to all !

Rodney

 

[DANNY SPENCER]

Rodney
Actually the metal trash is an advantage; it preserves relics from hunters less patient than to dig through it.
There is no telling how many relics that we left behind because they were in a trash or nail pile!
Discriminators were not that good back then and nails were recognized by the distinct dual tone of them made by pass over in a north / south and east / west direction. There was an abundance of cans, tin wooden case strapping, nails and what ever in piles up to yards wide that we never took the time to mess with.
Near the road crossing down hill toward the mountain along the power line was a Confederate cavalry camp that yielded up some fantastic plates, buttons and minie’s.