Are you a Yankee or a Reb?

Yankee/Reb

I was born in Massachusetts and lived in Texas for a decade so I have one leg firmly planted on either side of the fence. To solve the dilemma I now live in Adams County Pennsylvania (the county border is the Mason Dixon), a county that can be more Southern than parts of Georgia <Grin>.

TomH
 
IoWCG, in response to your simple (and complex) question, I must say, “Both . . . and neither.”

Sorry to answer in such a Zen way, but that is the reality of it for me. I am both, in that I honor my heritage in remembering my direct ancestors: three served with the Confederates in Louisiana, and one with a Pennsylvania regiment (and was actually at your Siege of Suffolk!) . . . and yet, while I’m like many, I suppose, who read accounts of the war and suspend disbelief, hoping that the Confederates will somehow pull off a victory against all odds (but knowing how it will end), I am neither a Rebel (using this word in the very narrow sense it is used in this discussion) or a Yankee. For the “I” that wonders, “What would I have done in the battle of X?,” or “What side would I have fought for . . . if either?,” was not there AND could never have actually existed then. I may imagine what “I” would have done, but I think when I (and others like me) do this, what I am really asking myself are questions like, “Am I brave?, courageous?, compassionate? Do I think some things are worth fighting for? Dying for? Killing for? What do I believe in, if anything? Do I challenge any beliefs with my experience and common sense so as to avoid blind allegiance or delusion? So I think when we look back on history, we do so ultimately to learn more about ourselves now--in the now. Seems to me that neither the Confederates nor the Unionists had an exclusive claim to the moral high ground (or low ground!)—and it’s very difficult to say what the war was fought “for,” as many people fought (and didn’t) for many different reasons. Maybe my being born in raised in Texas (which brings up the whole area of the influence of geography on one’s perspective) and now living in my adopted state of California helps shape my perspective—of course it must, in some way. Hmm . . . this may be telling, but here’s a thought experiment one may try in order to gain some insight on your question: If one were forced to join either a Federal or Confederate re-enactor troop (O.K., or costume party!), which would I represent (leaving out the very real pacifist option, if just for this experiment)? If I do this, I answer, with difficulty, Confederate (as I imagine my Union ancestor’s upset!). Is this because I am a "Rebel" at heart (oops, violated my own strict definition of Rebel)? Is my choice informed by my 3:1 CW ancestor ratio?—Could it really be that simple? . . . or that complex?
 
Dang Horace
I’m not sure if you just preached a sermon or psychoanalyzed a Hill Billy but I had to get up and go drink a beer after reading that! :cry:
I think may be you have been out there in the land of fruits & nuts a little too long, might need to go home to Texas and get back some south in your mouth! :wink:

Tom
The leg you have south of the Mason Dixon is trespassing! :lol:
I won’t even dignify your slanderous comment about Pennsylvania being more Southern than parts of Georgia with an answer! :A

County Grey
Asking a question like “Are You a Yankee or a Reb” is a sure fire way to start a bar brawl in the south!
The term Yankee far precedes the war of northern aggression and persists still today and in this context reference to rebel, there hasn’t been one since Appomattox of 1865. In respect to the fallen dead of our countries worst disaster I take exception to anyone of modern times referring to themselves as either one. We are all citizens of the United States of America! I also take exception to the practice of battle reenactments feeling it is a mockery of the reality endured by our ancestors. To answer your question I am an American of Southern heritage.
By the way, it should be pointed out that in the world view the citizens of the United States are considered arrogant by exclusively calling ourselves Americans.
By definition all the people from Alaska to Care Horn are either North or South Americans!
 
easy answer?

Horace,

Ahhh ... the dichotomy continues.

Danny,

The leg you have south of the Mason Dixon is trespassing!

On my tenth annivesary of my taking residence in the great State of Texas I was the subject of a immigration ceremony which, I was told by some locals, made me a "Naturalized Texan", with almost all the rights of a native. The ceremony involved thick steaks, a case of long necks and some insane jalapeno peppers.

I won’t even dignify your slanderous comment about Pennsylvania being more Southern than parts of Georgia with an answer!

That statement is based on the number of CS Battle Flags displayed by the residents of Adams county, my neighbors. Or, as a friend is fond of stating, "There's a whole lot of Arkansas between Pittsburgh and Philly". <grin>

Later,
TomH
 
I'm a transdenominational amillenialist.....however, not by birth. I'm a Yankee to the Aussies, and a Rebel to my wife.

Take care,

Kim
 
Hey....

Hey, people I know call me a johnny reb while I call them a billy yank, and I kind of like it and so do they, and also reenactors, like me are suppose to remind people how important and sad the Civil War in America! :x
 
Danny, you’re probably right—I try to make a pilgrimage back to Texas (with side trips to Louisiana) every few years or so (and fill up on enough Cajun food to hold me over until the next trip!). Sorry I drove you to drink!

This is a provocative topic—and I mean provocative of things within one’s self. Whenever we try to define ourselves, well, reality makes it tough to do so in a neat way—always something doesn’t quite fit (wait, Danny, come back . . . just gonna psychologize a little . . . you can still drink later!). TomH, speaking of dichotomies, that Pennsylvania CW ancestor that I mentioned bought a farm just after the war, the northern border of which was, literally, the Mason-Dixon Line!—and the cemetery in which he is buried is split by that very same line (he’s buried on the MD side of the cemetery)! The Line also ran directly through the original church where he attended (I guess that the minister could preach from Pennsylvania to those sitting in Maryland!). The church was not only split by the famous 39° 43’ N, but also by the allegiances of the congregation—some favored the South and followed one minister, while the other group followed a Northern-leaning minister.

I am suddenly reminded of the Dr. Seuss story I read to my children the other night: “The Zax”! For those of you who have never had the pleasure, a North-going Zax meets a South-going Zax and neither wants to yield—an interesting impasse then ensues at their Mason-Dixon Line.

--but yes Danny, you’re right--my heart needs to remember my Southern roots to stay true to myself. My “avatar,” as seen here on our site, is a tiny expression of that need.
 
I appreciate your thought too...

I appreciate your thought too, Horace because many people these days think that confederate were stupid hillbillies(pardon the thought). So I salute you for your deed to your Southern heritage! :grin:
 
Dichotomies

Horace,

This whole area is somewhat of a study in dichotomy. It seems that many period Adams county families had close relatives in Virginny, brothers, cousins, etc. Well before the county became known for the battle of the Burg there was a huge rift between local abolitionists and slavery proponents, leading to what has been described as the first battle of Gettysburg. In Dec, 1836, the Adams County Anti-Slavery Society headed by such notables as Adam Wert and Thaddeus Stevens conducted a meeting at the county court house with the purpose of chosing a delegation to represent them at the upcoming PA Anti-Slavery Convention in Harrisburg. The meeting degenerated into a full scale, fists and insults flying dust-up (Col. Michael Clarkson's fine silk top hat was knocked from his head when struck by a dead cat thrown by a pro-slavery proponent ... not a joke, but true), with the abolitionists being forced to retreat from the meeting place to later convene at a quiter place to draft up their agenda and minutes.

CS sympathizers were common in the county and it is believed that the battle of Fairfield (July 3, 1863, last day of the battle of Gettysburg) came about when a southern sympathizer reported a column of CS wagons retreating unguarded from Fairfield and Kilpatrick ordered the 6th US Cav to pusue. Instead of unguarded wagons, they ran into a trap set by Jones brigade supported by artillery and were decimated.

Later,
TomH
 
There is no debate as Rebel it is

Hi All
While I do agree that we are all American I also take pride in announcing to all that I am a Southerner at heart. Having been born in the Great State of Virginia and after seven years with the US Army; which took me all over the world I find myself now living a mere twenty miles from the place of my birth. I find it ironic that some would find the question of Rebel or Yankee offensive, as I must ask you does it matter? As for reenactors re-opening the woulds of a war of so long ago; I say no this is merely a history lesson that must be taught and what better way to teach than to put the student in the middle of semi-reality. Tasting, smelling, hearing this reality brings home the horror of all war and reminders of the reasons it was fought must be spoken of otherwise we are apt to repeat it again. For those who dislike reenactments I say avoid them at all cost. those that relish in the repeating of history for what ever reason I say enjoy the moment and teach history especially to the young as I think our schools avoid the subject in some ludicrous thought of being 'PC'. I know many that focus the Civil War, (Northern War of Aggression) as only a Slavery issue, those are the folks that need to read a history book or two to find out the real causes and reasons that so many gave their lives for a cause. Many say that the South was doomed from the start, and I would not argue the point to far, but I will say that they did have Heart and Spirit, and a belief in what they were doing.
I don't know that I would say I am a Rebel, I think 'Southerner' to be much more acceptable term that I associate myself with.
Not a sermon just my two cents. :)
Dave
THing4CSA
PS: Remember; Don't leave it in the ground!
 
Horace
I am always intrigued with the facts and outlooks that you impart to me, even if I have to drink a beer to understand the underlying wisdom contained within.

Yes my friends this is what makes our democracy great, the fact that every person can speak their mind and participate in any legal activity no matter how outrageous their opinion or actions are perceived by others.

I was raised just south of Marietta Georgia “the site of the Battle of Kennesaw Mountain” and as with most all southern cities there was one cemetery for the Confederacy and another for the Union well out of sight of one another. It impressed me then of the futility of waging war, a lesson still not learned throughout the existence of humanity. As with the institution of slavery was not ended with emancipation simply renamed to Jim Crow. It showed me that changes for good can only come from within and not from force. Neither the campaigns of war nor passage of laws will ever change the hearts of men. This is what I believe is not understood by us while we merrily go through our daily life of choices.


Hello Dave
I deeply respect and appreciate your service to the armed forces of our country, thank you. Please allow me to play the Devil’s advocate with you on what I admit is a real bee in my bonnet. I am complete agreement with you about those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it. This is the purpose of books, libraries and universities to fulfill this most wanting need amongst our species. It’s a lesson that mankind has failed to grasp since Kane slew Able. I don’t begrudge anyone for enjoying the things that fulfill and enhance their lives; this is the freedom that we enjoy in this country.
But the reenactment of a tragic event on a warm summer’s day with a picnic lunch seems to be a far cry from a true education of historical events.
You have said “I say no this is merely a history lesson that must be taught”! Taught yes but in its actual context, which no mother would let their child whiteness! Would you as a veteran appreciate seeing the Japanese reenacting the Bataan death march? Does anybody want to see a reenactment of the death camps of Eastern Europe under the Natzis? Just where does the line get drawn on this matter? It seems that we are content to turn a blind eye to such matters while we raise this “me generation” of children following the same path of not learning from history.
 
Danny,

I don't see any arrogance in calling ourselves Americans. Sure there's other countries in North and South America but we're the only country that has America in our name. Also, I take exception to your criticizing re-enactors. They keep our history alive just as we do by collecting. I don't see anything wrong with someone being proud of their heritage. I've seen some pretty informative displays of infantry and artillery tactics performed at Gettysburg National Park. Don't mean to offend, just my opinion.
 
Fine!

Since everyone is having a hissy fit about this then I'll make a new one because this ain't a debate this is a poll :x but I'm was part of this debate, so I apologize for this uproar. :-(
 
Reply to Danny Spencer

Hi All My TH'ing Friends
This reply is directed to Danny Spencer, I do thank you for respecting my limited association with the US Army, US Army Reserve, US Air Force Reserve, (I must provide credit where it is due).
I equally respect your right to agree to disagree. You stated that "But the reenactment of a tragic event on a warm summer’s day with a picnic lunch seems to be a far cry from a true education of historical events.' I must take you back to the first Battle of Manassas; the civilians in the Great City of Washington, DC brought their entire family to the battlefield to have a picnic and watch the battle. In very short order all hell broke lose and the true horror was cast among the picnickers. I don't know if any of the civilians were killed or injured but I have to think that going to a reenactment where everyone knows that everyone will go home with a smile on their face and maybe some small fact will be shared with someone that had no idea of what occurred so long ago.

I spent four and a half years in Hawaii while my Dad was stationed there in the US Army. Every year we attended 'Armed Forces Day' and got to see what the US Army was all about. Now you have to understand that this was during the Vietnam war (1960 through 1965). One of the really neat things us kids got to do was to shoot a M-14 Carbine Rifle, M-60 Machine gun even if it was blanks. I remember how heavy the M-14 was and after all these years later now know how heavy the 58 Cal Springfield Rifle must have been like for some 18 year old soldier. One of the other things that we were able to experience was recreations of booby traps, which when the experts explained all the details did make us ill but as kids we all looked forward to joining the Military and going to war some day in the future. One of the worst things they shared at Armed Forces Day was the 'Ambush'. They would march a platoon of twenty or so Soldiers down a trail in the woods and throw simulators (to recreate grenades explosions) and tons of machine gun fire, and when it was all over there were no standing Soldiers all had simulated wounds, complete with fake blood, fake guts from belly wounds, severed limbs and the like. But in the end everyone got up and walked away only to turn do the same thing again in an hour. I guess what I really want to say is that although you don't appreciate the reasons behind reenactments there are legitimate reasons to educate those that don't understand.
My Thanks go out to those who went to war and gave more than some and some gave their all.
I guess I am rambling on at this point but I must say I would defend your right to speak your belief even if I don't agree with you 100% with your logic. I do see what you mean but see more good than bad in teaching the past. You ask if reenactment of the Bataan Death march would be something that a WWII Veteran would appreciate, I am sure some would and have done that very thing. I think you miss the real point; Civil War reenactments of a battle in a war that was between Americans is totally different that WWI, WWII, or any other war. I think drawing a line is for tough guy kids on the playground not for reality.
Just my thoughts as jumbled as they may be. Thank you for reading and I do hope this will make sense to all.
Dave Mork
'Digger-Dave'
PS: Remember; Don't leave it in the ground!
 
well my family fought in wodwards cav forrest and morgan orphanbrigade the 1st fiedls the 5oth tenn co.E so im am a reb all the waay heck am a confederate reenactor 50th tenn CO.A long live the south
 
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