Looking for a CSA plate

S

shack

Established Users
Guys and Gals:

I think I have little to zero chance in digging a CS buckle or plate. I'm pretty sure all the construction sites and fields that I can hit have been cleaned of the big tone stuff.

I am saving my pennies for a CSA plate or buckle and was wondering what the forum though would be the best bang for the buck... The ones I like are the Georgia style box C.S.A. plates, and the CS Wreath and tongues. I was told to get a tongue first, then a wreath with matching patina as the CS ones were seldom stamped with numbers. Is that true?

I am (literally) saving a couple bucks each payday for one, so what are the chances that these things go through the roof (again). I mean, dropping a couple K on a buckle seems bad enough, but by the time I can get one, will they be double that? It seems they have really appreciated in the past 7-10 years.

I'm going to miss the G'Burg show this weekend as our Marine Corps Birthday ball is Friday night, and I will not be in any condition to drive on Saturday. I would have loved to get up there and priced some out, but without cash in hand, I think the trip would just make it harder to save.

Looking forward to your responses!

Shack
 
I see

Nothing wrong with buying relics at all. It's what we all love and hey you never never never know though you might one day get a CSA plate. I want to buy some smaller stuff I feel like I might not dig.
 
Hi Shack
If you are going to get a Confederate plate definitely read the books first to make up your mind as to what you really want.
If it were me I would look for a nice Atlanta C S A rectangle.
Definitely buy through a reputable dealer!
Have your money in place and put out the word to your chosen dealers and just wait.
It may take a while but you will end up with a much nicer purchase in the end as opposed to buying the best you can find when the itch hits you.
Don’t buy any plate off of eBay!
If a plate has been on a dealer’s web site for a while, it’s probably right but may have some problems with it.
If you are going to spend that much money you want a high quality specimen.
Put together buckles are all right but you will never find an exact patina match and you will find that makes all the difference in the world in price. Very hard to do but be patent for the right deal.
Just an opinion.
 
Thanks

Danny, thanks for the advice. I've had the itch for some time now, and am really hesitant because I do not have any experience with plates. I've dug breastplates and a boxplate, but never a CS plate.

I really like the Georgia style as well. I think it's the bold C.S.A. and the hearty build of the plate. I've seen a few for just over $1000, but they are kinda dinged up and bent pretty bad.

My biggest fear is that prices will continue to rise out of my price range. I cannot justify spending on a plate what could get me a nice used car....

Either way, I'm saving my money each month, and hope to have scraped enough together by this time next year to make my first CSA plate purchase. I guess between now and then I can get smart on the different types and makes.

I hope others submit their comments, and also, what is the best book for plates?

Thanks again!

Shack
 
Shack:

The best book for plates is Confederate Belt Buckles and Plates, Expanded Edition by Steve Mullinax. If you have to get one, that is it, but there are others. It should be roughly $30 and is well worth it.

The two plates you are after are expensive in nice shape. Probably $3,000+ for the CSA Atlanta Style rectangle and $2750 for the standard "Virginia style" CS two piece.

I will tell you right now that hands down the favorite relic I own and the one they will have to pry out of my cold dead fingers is my CSA plate shown below. I bought both of the ones you are considering from Lawrence Christopher, but I wanted a CSA rectangle since I was a kid when someone told me they went for the then astounding sum of $200.

I did an analysis of recent NSTCW price guides and posted it on the other projectiles forum. It showed that plate price appreciation has slowed. That said there is a lot of cash out there for the finest quality items and there just aren't too many available. These are two of the more common marked CS buckles, but they are also two of the most popular because they are classics. It is not an entirely efficient market so you may be able to find one at today's prices 2 years hence if you are patient enough.

I can think of half a dozen (only) dealers I would buy a plate from. Unfortunately, the guy I got mine from is not dealing right now. Steve Mullinax himself has a site with his contact information,

http://www.confederatebeltbuckles.com

but he doesn't do eMail. You'd have to call him and tell him to keep you in mind when he gets his next nice one (and his certification of authenticity means a lot both intrinsically and extrinsically). It would help to have most of the $ in hand when you do call him. But, when you are ready, you can ask again and we all can try to steer you to someone who is totally trustworthy.

I speak from experience about the stress of worrying that you have acquired a fake. I did get one that was post war (late 19th century), but fortunately the dealer was totally cool and took it back no questions asked.

For these shown below that are "right as rain," the occasional nagging thought still crosses my mind every so often and then you have to worry about safekeeping. I just want you to know that it is not only about the stress of saving up, or even finding a nice one, but it has a way of staying with you. And then if you ever do go to sell it, some folkks take morbid pleasure inraising questions about it, talking it down and basically making you feel miserable.

At one point I thought I'd buy one every year or two, but the stress just wasn't worth it to me.

There is a big show in Richmond 2 weeks after G-burg, by the way, that will have lots of goodies to oggle.

http://www.cvcwca.com

Maybe you can make that one. I think it will be a good one.

Here are some pictures of the two plates you're after. They are old pictures, but my plates are put away for safekeeping right now (daily fondling of them is known to affect the patina ;-) ) 3 shots of the CSA rectangle -- the "body curve" and file marks on the side are, in my opinion, pretty cool.
 

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Mike

Thanks for the super reply. That's why I keep coming back to this forum, for guidance like that...

You plates make me jealous. I know that I am way behind the financial power curve, shoulda bought 10 years ago, but hind site is 20/20...

I have asked my wife for Steve's book for Christmas. His website does not show any plates for sale, the link does not seem to work.

I appreciate the info, and I will definitely post on the forum when I am ready to buy. The experts here can definitely steer me to a reputable dealer. I'd rather learn from your mistakes than make the same ones myself...

Side note, I really do not like the frame buckles, or the forked tongue buckles. Not trying to bust on anyones collection or finds (I'd take one in a heartbeat :D ), but I am looking for a plate.

Also, what are some of the more collectible state plates? I think all the CS designs are pretty, especially Georgia and Louisiana... Is that an option worth considering versus a CSA plate?

I've got tons of time to get smart on this subject. Again, thanks for the forum advice, and I hope all reading this can take something out of it besides my miscellaneous ramblings.


Shack
 
I think when you get the Mullinax book, you will find your own top favorites.

I always liked the Clipped Corner CS with spun hooks, the Culpeper style VA 2 piece, the "Angry Pelican" Louisiana, the NC 6th Regiment, the CS with stars, Haiman style CS 2 piece, the old English style CS 2 piece, Alabama map and tree, and an SC palmetto tree breastplate. You'll have to look these up and give us back your own favorites because I suspect each of us could go on and on. Of course, someone with an affiliation to a particular state may have his or her own bias as well.

Availability and money are key issues here. The state plates are generally less common and so more expensive than even the ones I quoted prices for above. To me, collecting buckles is a bit like collecting buttons in that there are always a few more one would want to add to a collection and the cash required "to play" is enormous. $5k is kind of average for a state plate -- and they can easily top $10 (Alabama) or $20k (not a state plate, but CS with stars). Unless you are going to make General soon (with a second job to boot), I'd suggest going for one like the CSA Atlanta Arsenal and being happy with it.

The least expensive marked CS plate in nice condition is a so called "egg" style. It is kind of an extended oval with faintly stamped "CS" letters in it and iron, frog style, hooks that are almost always partially or completely rusted away. Its probably about $1800 plus or minus. I don't personally find it all that attractive, but it has the letters many consider to be magical. The standard VA CS two piece is the next least expensive as noted above. I did not mention there, but if you attempt to marry the buckles you will be frustrated by the need to get an exact match size-wise of the wreath and tongue, in addition to patina (which I have heard can be partially remedied by burying the two halves together for 6-12 months). These things were not produced to exacting tolerances like items are today and each one was made individually and then filed to fit (witness marks on side of my CSA rectangle above), so a proper fit like the 2 piece shown above is tough to achieve from matching up 2 pieces. At shows, you will see guys with briefcases containing several pieces that they are trying to match up to what the dealers have out. It can take years -- just look at the wreaths on Harry Ridgeway's site, albeit for scarce buckle types, that he has posted advertising for a mate for a couple years now.

By the way, he is another dealer I'd buy one from and is in fact the fellow (not the selling dealer) who made me realize the problem plate I had mentioned above was post war.
 
Shack,

Only because I am from Arkansas..... if you run across an Arkansas State Seal Buckle/Plate ..... and only because I'm from Arkansas...... I'll give ya $200.00 for it immediately! :wink:

Kim
 
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