What's with this bullet? Pulled or poured?

[High Plains Digger]

NEW THOUGHTS--SCROLL ON DOWN 4/15/11What's with this bullet? Pulled or poured?

There is some new information about the "ring around the bullet". New to me, anyway, and maybe somewhat of a new reveleation to some of y'all. Scroll on down towards the end for more thought-provoking conversation.---HPD 4/14/11
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I am not sure what happened to this bullet. At first, I thought it was a pulled bullet, pulled with a claw/screw combination. Then I did a little reading, and now I suspect it was a nose cast Southern product, due to the mark on the nose, and mis-aligned side seam. I suspect that the "hole" in the nose is actually an imperfection in the sprue (short lead pour?), not a screw hole. Any ideas out there?

 

[tbuckley]

I believe that it is a pulled bullet. The mis-aligned seam caused by a bullet cast in a worn mold or a pressed bullet made with worn dies could also be Northern made.

 

[High Plains Digger]

The only problem with the pulled theory is: Wouldn't the claw mark vary as the screw went down into the lead? It is distinctly only 1 line. And, didn't the claws have 2 prongs? This seems minimally "grabbed", but I haven't seen a claw pulled bullet, just screwed. The hole is very small, it seems.

 

[Jack]

Obviously a bullet made in a mould that wasn't aligned correctly.
The circular mark on the nose is quite similar to what you get when you reload a modern metallic cartridge with a lead bullet, and the punch that seats the bullet doesn't fit the profile of the bullet. I wonder if a ramrod that didn't fit the profile of the bullet could do the same thing, especially if the bullet was rammed down a dirty barrel and needed some force to seat the bullet. There are many accounts of CW soldiers having to pound a bullet down a hot dirty barrel during periods of heavy firing.

 

[High Plains Digger]

That would explain the mark, but not the hole in the nose. But I have been thinking about that a lot. I found a fair number of bullets that seemed to have ramrod marks on them. Including, as I remember, an enfield. Many of them have a little blip on the nose of the bullet, and I have been told those are Confed. nose cast, especially in 1864. Some have ramrod circle and blip. I have wondered if perhaps there were some really scared guys, perhaps ramming home a little harder than was necessary. I probably would have been able to ram it sideways if I was in that situation. I will have to look closer and see if all the ones with marks have been shot. With the dirty barrel theory, there may not be much in the way of rifling. I will have to put some study in on this matter. Thanks for the idea.

 

[High Plains Digger]

New questions and maybe an ANSWER about those pesky rings around the top of a bullet.

Sorry to add a new thread to an old conversation, but I have obtained some interesting information. Just returned from a week of hard work and a little digging (6 .44 cal, 3 with holes in the bottom and 3 flat bottomed), and had an opportunity to see the collection of Mr. Rutledge who was a very important digger in the early '60's. Even found a trench burial. But the important thing I learned is that the "ring around the top" of the bullet, that was discussed here as a ramrod mark, may not be. His thought was that it was a second bullet rammed down on the first, making the ring. I came home and tested that on the "perfect" bullets I have with a ring, and sure as hell, they matched! Or the vast majority did, anyway, if not all. I even have a Williams Type III that had the same mark and it fit into the bottom of a 3 ringer. Allowing for some variation of bullet manufacture, I would go out on a limb and say I have a 99% success rate, and that is only against two bullet bases. It would be better if I had a dozen bullets with psristine bottoms to test it on. I wondered about the "ramrod" theory mentioned above, and may have had some doubts. So, this particular bullet is a pulled bullet that had another rammed down on top of it. I have no doubt that in the heat of battle it would be so very easy to ram another on top of the first. I suppose the ramrod would not be the same "feel" because of an extra inch of bullet. Think about how he felt when he pulled the second one out to find a first one that needed pulling also! So, I am putting this out there, hoping that your curiosity is peaked a little, and that your testing would come out with results close to mine. Mr. George: Would you kindly weigh in on this? I am very interested in your opinion and thoughts. If no one finds this, I apologise in advance for putting it back in as a new thread. Thanks everyone. To me, this is a new topic and I need to broaden my education.