Would grape or cansiter shot have been this crude?

D

Diggin' Dixie

Established Users
Hey Folks,
I am a relic hunter and when someone I met heard about my hobby, they gave me these. They told me they were canister shot. I would assume they are something other than artillery related items due to their crudeness, but wanted to make sure. I measured them with electronic calipers and they measure 2.384 inches in diameter.

Thanks for any info

IMG_1455.jpg
 
Diggin' Dixie said:
Hey Folks,
I am a relic hunter and when someone I met heard about my hobby, they gave me these. They told me they were canister shot. I would assume they are something other than artillery related items due to their crudeness, but wanted to make sure. I measured them with electronic calipers and they measure 2.384 inches in diameter.

Thanks for any info

IMG_1455.jpg
Click to expand...

You have two nice canister shot, most likley Confederate. They were cast in a gang mold. There sould be sprue marks on opposite sides running along the mold seam line. Since they were packed in a can and not shot individualy down a barrel or tube, they didn't have to be perfectly smooth. It was a waste of time and effort to make them smooth if there was no need to. Remember, they were made to kill, not look pretty. They are real keepers!
 
Umm... sorry, no, they are not Canister balls. Note that the original poster says they measure 2.38-inches in diameter. According to the 1861 Ordnance Manual, no Canister balls were that large. However, the Shot Tables in the Manual say that 18-pounder (5.3"-caliber) Grapeshot balls were precisely the size of these two balls.

As a caution-note for inexperienced collectors who may read this post, I feel I MUST mention that similar-sized balls, with a mold-seam, have been manufactured for non-military purposes, even up to today. So, the next test is to weigh these two balls extra-precisely. Balls of this size from the 20th Century tend to be made of steel (not cast-iron, as civil war ones were), and steel is a heavier metal than cast-iron. According to the Shot Tables, 18-pounder caliber Grapeshot balls (all of which were cast-iron) weigh precisely 1.8 pounds (1 pound 12.8 ounces). If these two balls weigh more than that, they are definitely modern-era steel balls.

By the way... the size-&-weight charts in the Ordnance Manual's Shot Tables can be viewed on the Internet, for free, at:
Descriptions of shot for smoothbore guns

Regards,
Pete [P.C. George]
 
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According to McKee and Mason's book, Civil War Projectiles II Small Arms & Field Artillery, on page 66 it list:
2.38" Dia. 1.8 Lbs. Grape for 18# Gun - 9 shot per stand.

Besides, Confederate balls, including 12# and 6#, have the seam and sprue marks visible. The infromation shown on the web page is US standards. That dosen't mean that confederate standards were the exact same. There are cases in confederate ammuntion where there were more balls in a canister round of smaller caliber than the standard 27 in a US round.
At Cheraw, SC I have taken the same identical balls as well as 6# and 12# solid shot and shells out of the Great Pee Dee river where they were dumped by the Confederates when retreating from Cheraw.
 
shot canister

Hello to all of you history lovers.

I have an opportunity to get what is supposed to be an original shot canister. I have not much experience with Civil War projectiles. Does this canister appear to be all original with the seam on the metal going horizontal. The wood looks very new also.
Whatever it is, is there any value on this supposed original Civil War artifact??

Your expert opinions are greatly appreciated and I look forward to reading your responses

Regards

Jimmy



img src=http://www.1898andB-4.com/images_guns/can1.jpg
img src=http://www.1898andB-4.com/images_guns/can2.jpg
img src=http://www.1898andB-4.com/images_guns/can3.jpg
img src=http://www.1898andB-4.com/images_guns/can4.jpg





 
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Jimmy, your post shows no photos, nor an Internet-Link to some. We can't say much about your Canister without seeing it.

If you've tried but aren't able to successfully get the photos into a post here, try emailing them me to me. This forum allows you to do that.

Regards,
Pete [P.C. George]
 
Shot canister

Hi Sorry about that.

Jimmy
<img src=http://www.1898andB-4.com/images_guns/can1.jpg><br>
<img src=http://www.1898andB-4.com/images_guns/can2.jpg><br>
<img src=http://www.1898andB-4.com/images_guns/can3.jpg><br>
<img src=http://www.1898andB-4.com/images_guns/can4.jpg><br>
 
Shot canister

Hi

I am very new to the forum and don't seem to be able to upload my pictures. What is the trick??

Jimmy
 
Shot canister

Is this a real Civil War projectile?? If so what is a realistic value on it??

Thanks

Jimmy

can4.jpg

can2.jpg

can1.jpg[/ATTACH][/ATTACH]
 
Jimmy, thank you for posting the photos. Now I can answer the questions you asked.

I've got good news and bad news about that Canister.
The good news it that it is an Original -- not Reproduction, nor fake -- Canister.
The bad news is that it is absolutely definitely an 1870s/1880s Prussian/German version of Canister, manufactured by the Krupp armaments company in that country.

Note for future reference:
Any artillery projectile which has a copper/brass sabot (band) which is located ABOVE the projectile's iron base (meaning, you can see iron between the sabot and the projectile's iron base) was made for use in a Breechloading cannon that did not exist during the American civil war era.

Its current dollar-value depends on whether or not the buyer knows it is strictly from Europe in the 1870s/1880s (not American and not civil war era). In the former case, its value is about $75, to collectors of late-1800s European wars. In the latter case (an un-educated American buyer), such as on Ebay, I've seen one of these Krupp-amde German canisters sell for nearly $200.

Regards,
Pete [P.C. George]
 
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